Putting it out there...

[ash48]

Pondering this lately because I've been warning to write something about this ('cause of reasons…). Are Sam and Dean actually codependent? Zachariah said they were and they are often referred to by fans as codependent (both negatively and positively). But are they?



of or relating to a relationship in which one person is physically or psychologically addicted, as to alcohol or gambling, and the other person is psychologically dependent on the first in an unhealthy way.

excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, typically a partner who requires support due to an illness or addiction.

1. Mutually dependent.
2. Of or relating to a relationship in which one person is psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on someone who is addicted to a drug or self-destructive behavior, such as chronic gambling.



So is codependency the right word for their relationship? Just curious...

[Poll #2014387]

Comments

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

1. Mutually dependent.
2. Of or relating to a relationship in which one person is psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on someone who is addicted to a drug or self-destructive behavior, such as chronic gambling.


See, I'm old and the mutually dependent definition of the word is the one I use as that's how I was schooled, things like trade, pollination etc, those things were always co-dependant or mutually dependent which is a highly beneficial relationship.

The second definition, if you trace it back, goes only to the early 80s and came about from first AA addressing the family problems and using the term co-alcoholic, then on to co-chemically dependent, which was later shortened to codependent.

This is an age and culture/language thing to me as the two meanings seem totally opposite to each other and I often forget it's newer more clinical usage.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

which is a highly beneficial relationship.

Hmmm, yes. And interesting when thinking of it like that for the Winchesters. And maybe the discussion is more about whether their relationship is indeed highly beneficial. Perhaps to each other (if staying alive is indeed beneficial) but maybe not for the world? Or dammit, maybe it IS good for the world if they're out there keeping (some) people safe.

which was later shortened to codependent.

Oh that's interesting. It's not a word I've come across before hearing it as a way of describing the Winchesters. I've always thought as is simply as mutually depending on each other - which I think describes the boys. It seems though it has a much deeper, darker clinical meaning that some fans seem to like to use when demonstrating how negative the relationship is.

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was a word for mutual dependency long before it became a clinical diagnosis, which is I think causing many of the problems with fans arguing over how it's horrendously negative and destructive or the corner stone of their lives. One of these things is not like the other, so you can't really discuss it as the meanings are totally opposite of each other.

I guess I've always seen them as knowing deep down they can only rely, trust, work, really know each other in the whole world, an isolation that makes them incredible attuned to each other, the ultimate fighting unit because each is the other half of the other and I've never seen anything wrong there. Tom Burke, when talking about the Musketeers, always talks about their 'codependency' and he always means how they ultimately only totally trust and rely on each other, the bond that has been forged in fire of war and brotherhood and there is nothing unhealthy there.

I think maybe we need to actually drop the word 'codependency' because it is obviously not meaning the same to everyone? Yeah, oh look - there's a piggy up there behind that cloud...

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I think maybe we need to actually drop the word 'codependency' because it is obviously not meaning the same to everyone?

Which is precisely why I asked the question. *g* I was starting to write some stuff up about their "codependency" as though it's a given. I then thought that everyone will have their own idea of what that word means and that many won't even use that word to describe their relationship (and I think the poll confirmed that. Though many do consider them "co-dependent" - but I'm sure each have their own definition of it).

You know, I'm mostly (still!) trying to get my head around being told I'm scary because I was showing some excitement about the boys relationship. I wanted to write something about that but maybe it's more about understanding that everyone reacts to it differently and that's just the way it is.

Still might write something in defence of liking it though…;)

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I'm positive the two different takes on the word are not helping matters.

Individuals and their circumstances are always going to affect everyone differently; how we interpret show scenes is dependent on our own histories and experiences which are all unique and this naturally spills over into fandom. However, I'm of the opinion we can't be expected to understand each individual's nuances only try to be open minded; triggers, no matter how careful we are, are as individual as a finger print and there's always going to be something taken for granted that another will interpret differently on both sides.

You ain't scary honey, I do appreciate though that an accusation like that, coming out of the blue, is deeply disturbing and bewildering because it wasn't meant in the fashion it was taken, but that often is the case with personal upsets and triggers. Maybe writing some of it out in the context of this differing meanings of a single word will help - *shrug* I really don't know, but good luck - you know how scared fandom makes me! ♥