Sammy chat...

[ash48]

Warning. Don't click if show crit concerns you. Please. I want to be able to say some stuff and invite others to do so if they want to, without retribution (not that I ever get that *hearts you all*, but I just want to warn that I want to create a space for people to chat about Show concerns). It's really about getting stuff off my chest - and yours too if you want to.

Disclaimer: I still love the show. I love Dean. I love these characters. Wanting more for a character I adore isn't me hating on the show for no reason.



I've tried so many times to write up some reasons why I'm despairing about S10 and basically Sam's lack of - well, everything: presence, storyline, emotion, hair etc. etc., but I can't seem to assemble cohesive thoughts. I have many drafts but I can't post them because I read through them and all I seem to be doing is complaining. Which is essentially what I'm doing, but I wanted to give good, sensible, compassionate reasons for why I'm complaining. And I just can't seem to. Not well anyway.

I did make one post - which I took down - which stated "Sam's storyline is fucked". I took that down because it didn't seem fair I should say that without reasons. The reason I wrote that is because after writing reams of words I came to that conclusion. And not just because we don't ever get to hear from Sam, but because his actually story-line (since S8) makes no sense.

But mostly it's the Show's utter disregard for anything that has gone before for Sam. I actually have no issue with the current supportive Sam, or protective Sam (at all!) - but I hate that they have not given us resolutions to ANYTHING that has gone before (and also make it seem as though this is a Sam we've never seen before. It's as though "Sam" started in S8 - when he decided not to look for his missing brother). We just have to accept that Sam is suddenly ok. That Sam was misguided for be angry with Dean last season and his "I lied" was his "I'm over all that" transition to this season. I am so frustrated and sad that we've not had one episode (or even a moment) that has given us any exploration of how Sam went from the last 2 seasons to this one. And as much as I love that Dean's character is being thoroughly explored and a clear story arc is emerging, I just wish they'd balance it with giving us just a little bit of Sam. I'm not asking for much, just a littlebit. A Sam that isn't merely "bad, thoughtless brother" or "silent supportive brother".

On top of that, I'm finding the fact that fandom is loving this Sam so much, disconcerting. I mean, it's so much better than "Sam should kill himself, he's an ungrateful, whiny, selfish brother who doesn't appreciate Dean" but it suggests that the "best" Sam is a silent, supportive Sam. I get that current Sam is the one we love - being there for Dean, accepting Dean for who he is, saying the right things, being a tower of strength - but he's all those things without depth or reason. I know WE can make up those reasons (and there's a bucket load of them!) but I want the SHOW to do that. Show us that because Sam has been "other" that he understands what Dean is experiencing. Show us that Dean knows that's why Sam is so strong. Show us that Sam has a deep understanding of what it's like to carrying "evil" within his veins and that's why he's so good at this. Show us that Sam has beaten this and that's why he knows Dean can. Remind us that Dean actually locked Sam up when Sam was fighting his demons - and beat the crap out of him when he found out he lost his soul. In all honesty, I don't think they even remember what Sam has ever been through.

I dunno. I wrote on twitter that it's a bad time to be a Sam!girl. It just feels like that. We've had a season where his character went back to another universe where he only wanted a normal life, to a character who was prepared to die to save the world but failed, to a character who is betrayed by his brother and loses his autonomy (S9), to a character (this season) who worries about his brother. All this without ever really getting to know how he feels about any of it. And I don't mean feelings like "anger" and "love" and "worry". It's about feelings in context to everything else. Like we are seeing with Dean. Dean's unravelling story arc is deep and full of emotion tied to his childhood and past mistakes and self esteem and sense of worth and how he feels about Sam and pretty much everything we know about him. Sam's is tied to…? *sounds of crickets*…. (I think it's tied to aa writing team and show runner that haven't quite figured out who Sam is. They prefer the plot devise, emotional catalyst (for Dean) and enigma).

And maybe that's deliberate. I think we're heading for S4 Sam soon (as we've already had S1, S2 and currently S3 Sam) and I'm not at all feeling confident that we'll get the corresponding emotion we got back then. We currently have S3 Sam - worrying about Dean and trying all he can to save him. But at least we had Mystery Spot back then to give us great insight into Sam's sense of helplessness.

Is there light at the end of this tunnel? Perhaps I should just be satisfied with "good brother" Sam. And boy am I going to love it when he turns "dark side" and completely wipes out any progress he's ever made as a character. Or maybe I'm jumping the gun. If Sam actually manages to save Dean without compromising his character I'll stand corrected on all of this (though if they want to give us dark!Sam and dark!Dean together and really go there, I'll go along for the ride).

(dammit. It's late. I'll post this anyway. I'm sure there's a million typos…)

Comments

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

LJ ate my first snarky comment so here is a more reasonable note. I think for whatever reason, the show has abandoned the more complex characterizations of the early seasons. Instead, especially with the Carver years, they've focused on the plot and the characters have been molded as the plot required. That means that a lot of the nuance we had has been lost as the characters have become more two dimensional. What's left is the surface stuff for each character and they've leaned more on character tropes rather than using the characters that Sam and Dean were becoming. They have entirely ignored any character growth made by the boys. Dean has always had more outwardly defining behaviors and he was originally created more along the lines of a stereotype to begin with so there's more outwardly recognizable left now and I think they had a better grip on who they thought he was. Sam was a much more complex character to begin with and I don't think the show knows how to squash out the nuance and complexity and still give us what is essentially Sam. So much of what had happened to Sam went on in his head too. I think this season, they need good!Sam right now but they don't really know what that looks like other than research, riding shotgun, and eating salad. Because they haven't really got a grip on who Sam is and they are so busy trying to make their season arcs work, they've had Sam do some really OCC things in the last couple of seasons. That's fine if you can sell it but they never made it believable. Plot lines have come and been dropped, canon has been ignored, continuity stinks. They've had all the characters acting beyond dumb at points either to make a plot work or for laughs.

I really hope I'm wrong but I have a really bad feeling about where this is all going because Sam's last comment was that 'Dean's in trouble'. That's after we find out that the Mark is driving Dean toward fratricide. Sam, you're in trouble. This is all shaping up to be another chapter in the domestic violence that is the recent Sam and Dean dynamic. They can have Dean beat on Sam but hide behind 'the Mark made him do it'. With the way things go, the cynical part of me thinks they'll find a way to make that Sam's fault too. Blame the vic for his own abuse. Then they'll have Sam go dark or make the ultimate sacrifice because heaven forbid Dean clean up his own mess. Bah. I hope I'm wrong. I wish I trusted them more but I've been emotionally burned to a crisp.

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

for whatever reason, the show has abandoned the more complex characterizations of the early seasons. Instead, especially with the Carver years, they've focused on the plot and the characters have been molded as the plot required. That means that a lot of the nuance we had has been lost as the characters have become more two dimensional.

Spot-on. In the earlier seasons, Kripke was showrunner, and if anyone knew Sam and Dean's characters and motivations, it was he. But also, in the early days, some of TPTB were ex-X-Files people -- Kim Manners and John Shiban -- folks who already KNEW how to make a good show. Shiban moved on, Manners passed away, everyone left suddenly got an angel boner and forgot about the brotherly heart of the show, and . . . well, here we are. :(

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Great point about the talent remaining among tptb. That's all I'll say there. ;)

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

That's fine if you can sell it but they never made it believable.

YES! This is a huge problem, not that they've gone to some really dark and questionable places, but that they've never made it believable or carried it through - great insight.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh well said. Sad, but unfortunately accurate. :(

Blame the vic for his own abuse.

This is the thing that stresses me the most in all of this (and something that I've seen talked about before and haven't been able to get my head around fully).

It's a horrible side to this relationship and one that they keep perpetuating. I am worried that they don't actually know they are doing it. I am pretty sure they don't see that they've created a situation where Sam is a victim of abuse. It looked like they might have finally been addressing it last season, only it was completely ignored. I just can't see them playing the really long game in all this. To have created that abusive situation last season and only to address it in terms of what it means to Dean this season, suggests that they don't see the victim. Sam is the catalyst for Dean's angst and that's pretty much it (I think! I would love to hear an argument against this to be honest…).

I'm writing this after just seeing a tumblr comment talking about how selfish Sam is this season (so my thinking is slightly skewed to thinking about that). It just blows me away. In a season where Sam seems most supportive and in-tune with Dean there are fans who are STILL saying Sam is selfish- that he actually doesn't really care about the MoC and is only concerned because of what Dean might do to other people and to him, not about how it's hurting Dean. *massive head shake*.

But it makes me wonder. Is that how the show sees it too? That no matter what or who Sam is, he'll always be doomed to be lesser somehow? The one that's always wrong? The one that always needs to learn a lesson? We always feel sympathy for Dean (well, I'm not at the moment I have to confess), but rarely for Sam.

Then they'll have Sam go dark or make the ultimate sacrifice because heaven forbid Dean clean up his own mess. Bah. I hope I'm wrong. I wish I trusted them more but I've been emotionally burned to a crisp.

This is exactly how I think it will play out. I see them trying to recreate S1-5 atm and I think we're in S3 atm. If it's true then Sam will be going down a dark road to save Dean and he'll end up doing something that Dean will hate him for. And, like S4, Dean won't see that it was because of him in the first place. Sam will, once again, have to seek redemption and the vicious cycle will start all over again.

I want SO MUCH for Dean to take responsibility for his actions and not just "I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy"…etc. I want him to actually SEE the shit he's heaped on Sam (all with good intentions, I know) and recognise that there are times he can't just keep making decision for other people. Especially Sam. I thought this might have been where they were heading, but I kind of doubt it. Depends how "dark" they'll make Dean and whether they feel they'll have to make Sam "darker". Considering they made Dean commit a pretty dark act last year, it was who Sam ended up the "villain". I'm pretty sure they'll do that again by the end of this season (though surely fans will start to see through it. They will have to see the hypocrisy at some point).

We'll see. LIke you, I don't have much hope to be honest. I will happily at my words though!

Thanks for your thoughts hun.
xx

[adrift-n-time.livejournal.com]

^This^ I knew you'd find the words to help explain why Sam!fans are feeling so disillusioned.

Since you've so graciously provided this safe-space to vent, I'll quickly add that Dean's "that's on me" line has grown cringe worthy over the last couple seasons, and your above thoughts sheds some light on why! I love Dean, I really do, but my patience for him is waning. Shew... I feel better now. Thank-you.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Sometimes having a little vent is helpful. :D Sometimes just talking about this stuff makes it easier to cope with. I desperately want to be happy with the show, and there are many things that are happy making, but as they seem to be totally neglecting it's making it all the more hard to be happy (well, for me anyway. I'm pretty sure those who aren't too concerned about Sam's side of things are wondering what the hell the Sam!gals are complaining about…;D)

xx