Sammy chat...

[ash48]

Warning. Don't click if show crit concerns you. Please. I want to be able to say some stuff and invite others to do so if they want to, without retribution (not that I ever get that *hearts you all*, but I just want to warn that I want to create a space for people to chat about Show concerns). It's really about getting stuff off my chest - and yours too if you want to.

Disclaimer: I still love the show. I love Dean. I love these characters. Wanting more for a character I adore isn't me hating on the show for no reason.



I've tried so many times to write up some reasons why I'm despairing about S10 and basically Sam's lack of - well, everything: presence, storyline, emotion, hair etc. etc., but I can't seem to assemble cohesive thoughts. I have many drafts but I can't post them because I read through them and all I seem to be doing is complaining. Which is essentially what I'm doing, but I wanted to give good, sensible, compassionate reasons for why I'm complaining. And I just can't seem to. Not well anyway.

I did make one post - which I took down - which stated "Sam's storyline is fucked". I took that down because it didn't seem fair I should say that without reasons. The reason I wrote that is because after writing reams of words I came to that conclusion. And not just because we don't ever get to hear from Sam, but because his actually story-line (since S8) makes no sense.

But mostly it's the Show's utter disregard for anything that has gone before for Sam. I actually have no issue with the current supportive Sam, or protective Sam (at all!) - but I hate that they have not given us resolutions to ANYTHING that has gone before (and also make it seem as though this is a Sam we've never seen before. It's as though "Sam" started in S8 - when he decided not to look for his missing brother). We just have to accept that Sam is suddenly ok. That Sam was misguided for be angry with Dean last season and his "I lied" was his "I'm over all that" transition to this season. I am so frustrated and sad that we've not had one episode (or even a moment) that has given us any exploration of how Sam went from the last 2 seasons to this one. And as much as I love that Dean's character is being thoroughly explored and a clear story arc is emerging, I just wish they'd balance it with giving us just a little bit of Sam. I'm not asking for much, just a littlebit. A Sam that isn't merely "bad, thoughtless brother" or "silent supportive brother".

On top of that, I'm finding the fact that fandom is loving this Sam so much, disconcerting. I mean, it's so much better than "Sam should kill himself, he's an ungrateful, whiny, selfish brother who doesn't appreciate Dean" but it suggests that the "best" Sam is a silent, supportive Sam. I get that current Sam is the one we love - being there for Dean, accepting Dean for who he is, saying the right things, being a tower of strength - but he's all those things without depth or reason. I know WE can make up those reasons (and there's a bucket load of them!) but I want the SHOW to do that. Show us that because Sam has been "other" that he understands what Dean is experiencing. Show us that Dean knows that's why Sam is so strong. Show us that Sam has a deep understanding of what it's like to carrying "evil" within his veins and that's why he's so good at this. Show us that Sam has beaten this and that's why he knows Dean can. Remind us that Dean actually locked Sam up when Sam was fighting his demons - and beat the crap out of him when he found out he lost his soul. In all honesty, I don't think they even remember what Sam has ever been through.

I dunno. I wrote on twitter that it's a bad time to be a Sam!girl. It just feels like that. We've had a season where his character went back to another universe where he only wanted a normal life, to a character who was prepared to die to save the world but failed, to a character who is betrayed by his brother and loses his autonomy (S9), to a character (this season) who worries about his brother. All this without ever really getting to know how he feels about any of it. And I don't mean feelings like "anger" and "love" and "worry". It's about feelings in context to everything else. Like we are seeing with Dean. Dean's unravelling story arc is deep and full of emotion tied to his childhood and past mistakes and self esteem and sense of worth and how he feels about Sam and pretty much everything we know about him. Sam's is tied to…? *sounds of crickets*…. (I think it's tied to aa writing team and show runner that haven't quite figured out who Sam is. They prefer the plot devise, emotional catalyst (for Dean) and enigma).

And maybe that's deliberate. I think we're heading for S4 Sam soon (as we've already had S1, S2 and currently S3 Sam) and I'm not at all feeling confident that we'll get the corresponding emotion we got back then. We currently have S3 Sam - worrying about Dean and trying all he can to save him. But at least we had Mystery Spot back then to give us great insight into Sam's sense of helplessness.

Is there light at the end of this tunnel? Perhaps I should just be satisfied with "good brother" Sam. And boy am I going to love it when he turns "dark side" and completely wipes out any progress he's ever made as a character. Or maybe I'm jumping the gun. If Sam actually manages to save Dean without compromising his character I'll stand corrected on all of this (though if they want to give us dark!Sam and dark!Dean together and really go there, I'll go along for the ride).

(dammit. It's late. I'll post this anyway. I'm sure there's a million typos…)

Comments

[amypond45.livejournal.com]

As a newcomer to the show I'm so grateful for this discussion! Now I understand why I felt so betrayed about the Grand Canyon gaff -- how could the writers and J2 not remember that pivotal scene in S2? I pretty much accepted Sam not looking for Dean after S7 bc of their old agreement to go on with their lives if one of them disappeared (and that was going so well we had Amelia's dad pointing out that Sam was obviously PTSD, and I figured he hit the dog bc he was driving drunk or at least sleepless and grieving). I'm one of the lame-ass fans who love Sam being supportive to Dean, and I totally believe he has a serious talk with Cas after the screen goes black at the end of this ep. I love the idea that he's had some earlier heart-to-hearts with Cas this season, on park benches or otherwise, just off-screen. But more than anything, we need a Sam-centric episode this season. We could have Mystery Spot for S10 and it would be totally awesome and long overdue!

:::running off to write this:::

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

A Sam-centric episode... *wistful sigh*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*wistfully sighs* with you. The last Sam-centric episode was probably The Great Escapist in S8 (8.21). Other than that we got some inside thoughts in 9.01 (some great ones actually) and um…that's it I think.

Dammit. Now I have an urge to do a tally between Sam and Dean centric eps… /o]\

*resists*

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi!

Now, as a newcomer to the show the LAST thing I'd ever want to do is dampen any enthusiasm you have for it. I know that reading negative posts can start to make see things that you may not have noticed before. I think, to some degree, that may have happened to me (though, I've been trying to find out why I'm feeling so empty by the current show so I've been searching out concrit. So yeah - see all the wonderful things the show has to offer! :D

(ha, though that said I'm about to voices some of my personal grievances so please feel free to skip this bit. It' s not about me being negative for the sake of it, just my perspective on some of the things you mentioned...

I pretty much accepted Sam not looking for Dean after S7 bc of their old agreement to go on with their lives if one of them disappeared

I think that this might have worked if Dean had also accepted that. Instead he was bitter and angry at Sam that he didn't look for him. IF they wanted us to believe that Sam didn't look for Dean because of that unspoken agreement then I think Dean needed to be in on it too. He was very pissed with Sam and so the audience are also pissed with Sam (generally).

That said, I had a myriad of reasons why Sam didn't look for Dean that really worked for me. PTSD was certainly one of them, I also took his statement that his world "imploded" for all it's worth and knew he wasn't in his usual mind. Even though the Amelia story line was poorly handled I believed that if Sam was really in love, then he would have found solace in that (shame that we never really were allowed to see the romance or love in that relationship). Sam also, finally, had a life of his own and had escaped the hunting life and was no longer under the influence of his brother. The idea of Sam not looking was pretty huge and potentially fantastic, but, for me, it was never fully realised. It ended in such a way that both the brothers ended up back together - and it was a sad, miserable reunion rather than a happy one.

I'm one of the lame-ass fans who love Sam being supportive to Dean

:) I'm one of those too! I love supportive Sam. I adore strong, centred, sensible, calm and focussed Sam. I want to roll around in this fantastic Sam. But it's just so damn hard when we haven't had any of his story. No feeling, no opinions, no references to anything that's gone before. I keep saying I'll leave it alone and forgot the past and move on like Sam has. But I just can't help seeing how neglected his side of this story his. I know we can imagine all sorts of things happening - talks with Cas etc, but as we don't see it, it suggests his side of the story is just not that important in the scheme of things.

:::running off to write this:::

I look forward to reading! (assuming you mean this….*g*).

Thanks for your thoughts. And I love that you've discovered the show and fandom recently! I know I probably need to be reminded of what it's like to adore this show like I used to. :))

Sam

[andrea nichols (from livejournal.com)]

I really am such a fan of this show that I cannot find a reason to complain that often- Love is a two sided coin- I may not be pleased with the arc that Sam is written into, but I feel personally about this brotherly thing- I just lost my only two sisters (both to cancer) and they were younger- and I could not save them- I know that siblings are hard to deal with at times- me being one=- and I am no angel. But hey- sam is sam and Dean is dean- they love each other- and Sam without Dean and Dean without his baby brother is no where- The show is THEM- not one or the other- The story line has gotten confusing at times- and I am always going back to the recording to review it ver and over if I have to- Watch it (any of the episodes) over one or two times and the whole thing looks, feels and seems better- Maybe the writers ought to leave the room and come back to the idea or storyline - over and over again- It will all be good- and let's hope there is another I am not anything without you in the next few shows- Until then lets all love, hug, cry and laugh together about this amazing series and thank the good God for it and for these guys and the crew that make it possible.

Re: Sam

[amypond45.livejournal.com]

I so much agree -- Winchesters together are the best Winchesters! When we see either of them estranged for a time or separated by hell or purgatory or whatever, I'm tense and worried for them and just need it to be over!