Sammy chat...
Feb. 22nd, 2015 12:56 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ash48Warning. Don't click if show crit concerns you. Please. I want to be able to say some stuff and invite others to do so if they want to, without retribution (not that I ever get that *hearts you all*, but I just want to warn that I want to create a space for people to chat about Show concerns). It's really about getting stuff off my chest - and yours too if you want to.
Disclaimer: I still love the show. I love Dean. I love these characters. Wanting more for a character I adore isn't me hating on the show for no reason.
I've tried so many times to write up some reasons why I'm despairing about S10 and basically Sam's lack of - well, everything: presence, storyline, emotion, hair etc. etc., but I can't seem to assemble cohesive thoughts. I have many drafts but I can't post them because I read through them and all I seem to be doing is complaining. Which is essentially what I'm doing, but I wanted to give good, sensible, compassionate reasons for why I'm complaining. And I just can't seem to. Not well anyway.
I did make one post - which I took down - which stated "Sam's storyline is fucked". I took that down because it didn't seem fair I should say that without reasons. The reason I wrote that is because after writing reams of words I came to that conclusion. And not just because we don't ever get to hear from Sam, but because his actually story-line (since S8) makes no sense.
But mostly it's the Show's utter disregard for anything that has gone before for Sam. I actually have no issue with the current supportive Sam, or protective Sam (at all!) - but I hate that they have not given us resolutions to ANYTHING that has gone before (and also make it seem as though this is a Sam we've never seen before. It's as though "Sam" started in S8 - when he decided not to look for his missing brother). We just have to accept that Sam is suddenly ok. That Sam was misguided for be angry with Dean last season and his "I lied" was his "I'm over all that" transition to this season. I am so frustrated and sad that we've not had one episode (or even a moment) that has given us any exploration of how Sam went from the last 2 seasons to this one. And as much as I love that Dean's character is being thoroughly explored and a clear story arc is emerging, I just wish they'd balance it with giving us just a little bit of Sam. I'm not asking for much, just a littlebit. A Sam that isn't merely "bad, thoughtless brother" or "silent supportive brother".
On top of that, I'm finding the fact that fandom is loving this Sam so much, disconcerting. I mean, it's so much better than "Sam should kill himself, he's an ungrateful, whiny, selfish brother who doesn't appreciate Dean" but it suggests that the "best" Sam is a silent, supportive Sam. I get that current Sam is the one we love - being there for Dean, accepting Dean for who he is, saying the right things, being a tower of strength - but he's all those things without depth or reason. I know WE can make up those reasons (and there's a bucket load of them!) but I want the SHOW to do that. Show us that because Sam has been "other" that he understands what Dean is experiencing. Show us that Dean knows that's why Sam is so strong. Show us that Sam has a deep understanding of what it's like to carrying "evil" within his veins and that's why he's so good at this. Show us that Sam has beaten this and that's why he knows Dean can. Remind us that Dean actually locked Sam up when Sam was fighting his demons - and beat the crap out of him when he found out he lost his soul. In all honesty, I don't think they even remember what Sam has ever been through.
I dunno. I wrote on twitter that it's a bad time to be a Sam!girl. It just feels like that. We've had a season where his character went back to another universe where he only wanted a normal life, to a character who was prepared to die to save the world but failed, to a character who is betrayed by his brother and loses his autonomy (S9), to a character (this season) who worries about his brother. All this without ever really getting to know how he feels about any of it. And I don't mean feelings like "anger" and "love" and "worry". It's about feelings in context to everything else. Like we are seeing with Dean. Dean's unravelling story arc is deep and full of emotion tied to his childhood and past mistakes and self esteem and sense of worth and how he feels about Sam and pretty much everything we know about him. Sam's is tied to…? *sounds of crickets*…. (I think it's tied to aa writing team and show runner that haven't quite figured out who Sam is. They prefer the plot devise, emotional catalyst (for Dean) and enigma).
And maybe that's deliberate. I think we're heading for S4 Sam soon (as we've already had S1, S2 and currently S3 Sam) and I'm not at all feeling confident that we'll get the corresponding emotion we got back then. We currently have S3 Sam - worrying about Dean and trying all he can to save him. But at least we had Mystery Spot back then to give us great insight into Sam's sense of helplessness.
Is there light at the end of this tunnel? Perhaps I should just be satisfied with "good brother" Sam. And boy am I going to love it when he turns "dark side" and completely wipes out any progress he's ever made as a character. Or maybe I'm jumping the gun. If Sam actually manages to save Dean without compromising his character I'll stand corrected on all of this (though if they want to give us dark!Sam and dark!Dean together and really go there, I'll go along for the ride).
(dammit. It's late. I'll post this anyway. I'm sure there's a million typos…)
Disclaimer: I still love the show. I love Dean. I love these characters. Wanting more for a character I adore isn't me hating on the show for no reason.
I've tried so many times to write up some reasons why I'm despairing about S10 and basically Sam's lack of - well, everything: presence, storyline, emotion, hair etc. etc., but I can't seem to assemble cohesive thoughts. I have many drafts but I can't post them because I read through them and all I seem to be doing is complaining. Which is essentially what I'm doing, but I wanted to give good, sensible, compassionate reasons for why I'm complaining. And I just can't seem to. Not well anyway.
I did make one post - which I took down - which stated "Sam's storyline is fucked". I took that down because it didn't seem fair I should say that without reasons. The reason I wrote that is because after writing reams of words I came to that conclusion. And not just because we don't ever get to hear from Sam, but because his actually story-line (since S8) makes no sense.
But mostly it's the Show's utter disregard for anything that has gone before for Sam. I actually have no issue with the current supportive Sam, or protective Sam (at all!) - but I hate that they have not given us resolutions to ANYTHING that has gone before (and also make it seem as though this is a Sam we've never seen before. It's as though "Sam" started in S8 - when he decided not to look for his missing brother). We just have to accept that Sam is suddenly ok. That Sam was misguided for be angry with Dean last season and his "I lied" was his "I'm over all that" transition to this season. I am so frustrated and sad that we've not had one episode (or even a moment) that has given us any exploration of how Sam went from the last 2 seasons to this one. And as much as I love that Dean's character is being thoroughly explored and a clear story arc is emerging, I just wish they'd balance it with giving us just a little bit of Sam. I'm not asking for much, just a littlebit. A Sam that isn't merely "bad, thoughtless brother" or "silent supportive brother".
On top of that, I'm finding the fact that fandom is loving this Sam so much, disconcerting. I mean, it's so much better than "Sam should kill himself, he's an ungrateful, whiny, selfish brother who doesn't appreciate Dean" but it suggests that the "best" Sam is a silent, supportive Sam. I get that current Sam is the one we love - being there for Dean, accepting Dean for who he is, saying the right things, being a tower of strength - but he's all those things without depth or reason. I know WE can make up those reasons (and there's a bucket load of them!) but I want the SHOW to do that. Show us that because Sam has been "other" that he understands what Dean is experiencing. Show us that Dean knows that's why Sam is so strong. Show us that Sam has a deep understanding of what it's like to carrying "evil" within his veins and that's why he's so good at this. Show us that Sam has beaten this and that's why he knows Dean can. Remind us that Dean actually locked Sam up when Sam was fighting his demons - and beat the crap out of him when he found out he lost his soul. In all honesty, I don't think they even remember what Sam has ever been through.
I dunno. I wrote on twitter that it's a bad time to be a Sam!girl. It just feels like that. We've had a season where his character went back to another universe where he only wanted a normal life, to a character who was prepared to die to save the world but failed, to a character who is betrayed by his brother and loses his autonomy (S9), to a character (this season) who worries about his brother. All this without ever really getting to know how he feels about any of it. And I don't mean feelings like "anger" and "love" and "worry". It's about feelings in context to everything else. Like we are seeing with Dean. Dean's unravelling story arc is deep and full of emotion tied to his childhood and past mistakes and self esteem and sense of worth and how he feels about Sam and pretty much everything we know about him. Sam's is tied to…? *sounds of crickets*…. (I think it's tied to aa writing team and show runner that haven't quite figured out who Sam is. They prefer the plot devise, emotional catalyst (for Dean) and enigma).
And maybe that's deliberate. I think we're heading for S4 Sam soon (as we've already had S1, S2 and currently S3 Sam) and I'm not at all feeling confident that we'll get the corresponding emotion we got back then. We currently have S3 Sam - worrying about Dean and trying all he can to save him. But at least we had Mystery Spot back then to give us great insight into Sam's sense of helplessness.
Is there light at the end of this tunnel? Perhaps I should just be satisfied with "good brother" Sam. And boy am I going to love it when he turns "dark side" and completely wipes out any progress he's ever made as a character. Or maybe I'm jumping the gun. If Sam actually manages to save Dean without compromising his character I'll stand corrected on all of this (though if they want to give us dark!Sam and dark!Dean together and really go there, I'll go along for the ride).
(dammit. It's late. I'll post this anyway. I'm sure there's a million typos…)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2015-02-22 11:09 pm (UTC)Re. loving this season's Sam, well, it's either that or sink into despair for his character, and I'm not quite ready to do that yet. It's what we've got. I still care about the characters so I'd better find a way to tolerate how Carver is steering the show. At least it's better than the character assassination they gave us in Eight and Nine...which I get why they did it. They had to build an environment where Dean was so miserable, he would be driven to take the Mark. But there again, Sam was little more than a plot device, albeit Dean's favorite plot device.
I totally agree with you on how Dean getting his hallowed myth arc is different than the way Sam got his. Dean was always explored, even if Sam had the 'magic' happening to him. Sadly, not so much in reverse. We're told Sam went to desperate lengths to track Dean down at the beginning of the season. He tortured a demon. Woo. Mostly, we have to accept Sam at scant face value; we have little more to go on. On its basest level, Sam's character arc since Carver took the helm is "I wanted out, now I don't." Do we even know why? Not really. We can surmise that it's because Dean won't get out and Sam will follow Dean anywhere. But this is only a guess, and seems way too cheap and easy, too surface. What does this say about Sam? Who the hell knows. Does Sam even know? These are things the writers have to ask (and answer) themselves before the character can act on it. Pretty sure the writers have no clue, or at least not one that they share.
Sam is simply being responsive to everything Dean is doing, or has done to Sam. He feels like a passenger, while Dean is still driving the bus. This I lay squarely at Carver's feet. We had the thoroughly anti-climactic curing of Dean, and that's it.
BUT! Here's something I heard on the podcast Supernatural: The Crossroad, and it's an interesting spin. The podcast is three guys, all of whom are really dedicated to the show and pragmatic about the characters. They were musing about Sam too, and admitted that Dean was the snappy one, the one everyone wants to be. But Sam, as it turns out, is the strong one. He's the one, after all he's been through, that has his shit together. He's the tower of strength that Dean needs, the voice of reason. Which is great! But he also needs to be a participant in his own life, in an interesting way that makes for exciting TV, not just the odd phone call to Cas or using his google-fu. (I actually think Halt and Catch Fire tiptoed in the right direction with this.)
I also think that while the writers should in no way give fans what they want--that is, spoon-feed us our specific desires as fan-service--I do think they pick up on vibes and fandom zeitgeist. Arguably, Sam's part in the main plot has gotten marginally better, IMHO. There has been less direct Dean/Cas interaction. Happenstance or direct influence? Who knows. But it manages to tickle me with hope.
So! We shall see! I love that we can discuss this here, Ash. We Sam fans need to frolick! Even if it's angsty frolicking. This is our safe place. :)
no subject
Date: 2015-02-25 11:05 am (UTC)Sam being the "strong one" is probably one of my fave things about him at the moment. I know that my complaining makes it seem that there's nothing I like about what's going on with Sam this season. I actually really like it, in terms of seeing that Sam can pretty much survive anything and still remain strong and hopeful. I think WE have to connect the dots - I'd bet money that TPTB didn;t sit down and say "let's show how strong Sam is because of everything he's been through". It's definitely just "ok, we've had "I won't look for you or save you" Sam, so let's now have "I'll do anything and everything I can to save you". This total turn around without us seeing anything that's gone on in his head that took him there.
I keep coming back to knowing (for myself) that it's simply that we got those 2 versions of Sam last 2 seasons and now we have this one without a bridging story. I keep hoping for those few sentences that tie it all together.
Still. I know this season is a hundred times better, and more in character, for Sam than the last 2 (though, I think there was a lot in character for Sam last season only he wasn't allowed to speak so we never got to understand him or his reasons for feeling the way he did).
It's either that or sink into despair for his character, and I'm not quite ready to do that yet.
Me neither! And I think it's why I make these posts. I helps to chat and I usually end up feeling more hopeful. :D
*hugs*