11.15 reaction

[ash48]

I wasn't really taken with that episode I have to confess. I started writing up why and it sounded like sour grapes so I've decided to just say that even though it had some funny moments (Jensen and his physical comedy being a highlight) and a couple of cute bro moments (Sam ribbing Dean while watching the wrestling), overall it left me feeling pretty flat and disappointed (and a bit squicked tbh). It might be that I'm feeling flat today due to a cold, so I'll watching it again to get a better perspective (though I will have to skip the Lucifer & Crowley scenes and the torture scene *meep*)

Happy to discuss in comments if anyone wants to chat. :)

Comments

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

I didn't watch through it, partly because of second handed embarrassment from Dean's excitement. It's just too much for me. I'll go back and watch it when I get a long and nice break from work.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

See, I think that might have been that for me too. It just felt all so forced. I have later wondered if that had been deliberate - a kind of "smile like you mean it" moment. If the rest of the episode hadn't have been so heavy handed I might have been content that they were making a comment about the boys' survival tactics. But nah.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I get that embarrassment squick too, and it wasn't as bad upon second watch. Also, Sam looked really pretty in this episode, so I bit the bullet and it was worth it. (Two words: gray coat.) :D

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

"Blank" sounds about right. As that was what my mind was like after watching. I know what the problem was but really can't find the words to explain it. I'll just remember this episode for Dean being funny in the wrestling ring. And with blinkers on I now look forward to the next ep. ;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's the next day and thinking on it overnight (yes, this damn show seeps into my half wake moments!) it comes down to clunky writing. As much as I love Jerry Wanek for his set design, I think he needed a tighter reign over his actors. They were calling the shots in this, not him. Also, I think it was just a badly timed episode. Sam and Dean just found out that Lucifer is out of the cage and they've been given no time to react to that.

And then there's casifier. After saying last week he was improving, this week he went back to playing it clownishly (the difference a director makes…;D)

xox

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

I didn't expect much from this ep at all, figured it would be overexaggerated and painful to watch for the sake of milking the comedy.

I loved it.

First, I thought they brought the whole boys-love-wrestling in organically, talking about how John took them to it. It didn't feel like it came out of nowhere, unlike how Sam was a football geek all of a sudden in the episode where the famous football player was really a centuries-old Aztec.

Second, I found the funeral scene where Dean geeks out over Gunner was on point--it was funny seeing Dean as a fanboy contrasted with his usual cool persona, but it wasn't overdone--to Gunner, Dean was clearly a overwhelmed fan, but he wasn't a caricature of one.

Dean in the wrestling ring was priceless physical comedy, and again I could believe he'd do that if no one could see him. (How much fun do you think Jensen had filming that?!)

Then, in a way that an episode hasn't done for a very long time, the light-heartedness turned tragic. I thought both Gunner and Harley developed into more than cardboard characters. I felt bad when Harley was killed, and sad when the hellhounds came for Gunner even though it was his own choice that brought him to that end...he did save the boys, there was still some good in him.

As far as Crowley and Casifer...I have never been a Crowley fan, I can't overlook the evil he's done (killing Sarah!) just because he's become Dean's buddy. But last night I was rooting for him because Lucifer's smugness made me really want to see him get his comeuppance! Yes, Casifer is annoying, but Pelligrino played him the same way tormenting Sam when the wall was broken.

While I can't possibly make a list of the 10 best episodes, this one ranks as one of my all-time favorites. Hoping you find a little something to enjoy on the rewatch.

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

Piggybacking onto your comment to say I totally agree. I went into this one not expecting a lot, but I really liked it a lot more than I thought I would... pretty much for all the same reasons you listed.

I wasn't as thrilled with the Casifer stuff, but like you I was really rooting for Crowley. Lucifer was just getting on my nerves so much, I was really hoping for Crowley to one-up him (even if Simmons did double-cross him).

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey. I wasn't expecting much either (Dabb isn't one on my fave writers, so I was ready for that) so I'm surprised that didn't help.

I am so glad you liked it though. As you say below, it's much better to be happy than disappointed. It certainly is!

For me, pretty much everything you mention here I had an opposite reaction to (particularly Dean's reaction to Gunner - it was funny and Jensen is great at that kind of humour, but the overall acting in this episode really left me cold). Though I literally laughed out loud of Jensen in the ring. *g*

And it's not that I find Casifier annoying (he should be), its just the performance I struggle with. Though I desperately want him to get his comeuppance! I actually was hoping Crowley was going to kill him, but then remembered we weren't near the finale yet.

This ep isn't enough to get me down though (like some do). It was meant to be light hearted and a break from the heaviness the boys deal with so it worked on that level. :)

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I felt the SAME WAY about Luci vs. Crowley. Definitely Team Crowley, here. Whoda thunk it!

That being said, with Crowley, Lucifer and the Darkness roaming the world, the Winchesters better get their heroic asses in gear! And they'd better get some help... *sneaky eyes*

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

This was the most disappointing episode of the season for me. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't all that good either. Dean in the ring was the stand out. Jensen does comedy really well. I also loved watching them both enjoying themselves for a change, but pretty much everything else was kind of blah.

You saw my tweet about neither of the boys trying to exorcise the smug demon. That irked me so much. Dean had been tossed out of the room, but for Sam to not even attempt it seemed ridiculous. It's not like every word of it wouldn't be etched inside his brain by now.

You could see that Crowley was being set up from space it was that damn obvious. I was really rooting for him to turn around and kill the female demon, so when he completely fell for the rouse it was very disappointing. Misha as Casifer is still annoying the hell out me, too. Although he was a tiny bit better with it this week.

I'm glad Crowley escaped because it will add another dimension into trying to take down Lucifer. As much as Crowley deserves to be stabbed in the face, I love the character.

I felt too much second hand embarrassment with the funeral scene between Dean and Gunnar. Ugh.

And what's with having the former female wrestler pretty much playing mother to all the male wrestlers? Sexist much??

Oh and that line, "He, she, or shim" has to be one of the most offensive lines in the history of the show. There are many different ways that could have been said differently that wouldn't have been so tasteless. I'm not one for being overly politically correct, but that term is as bad as using racial epithets. They should know better. I guess having the line coming from a demon, and not a nice or good character could be seen as it being part of being an evil jerk though. All I know is that it made me bristle. I don't think anything will ever top A Rock and a Hard Place for an episode that I found completely offensive and repulsive. It took me three goes to sit through that entire episode and had me hating Dean for weeks (something I'll never forgive the writers for).

All in all, I didn't dislike this week's episode, it just left me feeling flat. I'll give them a pass though because otherwise this season has been really, really good.

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

You saw my tweet about neither of the boys trying to exorcise the smug demon. That irked me so much. Dean had been tossed out of the room, but for Sam to not even attempt it seemed ridiculous. It's not like every word of it wouldn't be etched inside his brain by now.

YES YES YES

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

. It's not like every word of it wouldn't be etched inside his brain by now. They already established that Sam knows it well enough to recite it backwards, for goodness sake. Or he could just carry his phone with the recorded exorcism around when they have established the fact that a demon is involved. But that would have made Sam effective and not a having to be rescued by a secondary minor character.

This was a disappointment to me for many reasons. I did like the fact that we actually had an old fashioned demon deal and Hell Hounds showed up. I liked Crowley escaping. So it wasn't totally awful.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

That he she or shim phrase didn't bother me because i took it that he (It?) was talking about demons which to me don't really have a sex outside of whichever vessel they happen to be presented in. If that had been used regarding a human/trangender then yep, it would have been offensive.

Otherwise, yeah, I wasn't overly fond of this one and agree with most of your niggles - I think it suffered coming after a good series of episodes. The contrast made it seem worse than it was - if they'd given me this episode in Season 8 I'd probably have been cheering.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

This was the most disappointing episode of the season for me.

I agree. Seeing the gif on twitter of Sam and Dean enjoying the wrestling made me think we might be in for some great SamnDean stuff - instead there was the usual sniping that made me cringe a bit (though there were also a couple of nice bro moments). This isn't the worse ep so far for me ("The Devil in the Details holds that spot - another Dabb written episode rather curiously), but definitely the most disappointing.

You saw my tweet about neither of the boys trying to exorcise the smug demon. That irked me so much.

The whole ending irked the hell out of me. From that guy getting his Achilles heal sliced to Dean being tied up (so he could be killed…what?) to Sam not being to exorcise the demon. Then there's the villain's monologue that I am so truly sick off.

You could see that Crowley was being set up from space it was that damn obvious.

Everything felt obvious to me. That scene where Lucifer came in felt so slow. It's like - yep, we know this so now what? I did like that Crowley did the double double cross and managed to get out of there. Though why Lucifer didn't get kill Crowley is beyond me. I accept that it was to "play" with him, but other than that - no good reason.

A good example of what mostly irked me in this episode is being treated like we don't "get it". There was that scene between Sam and the x-female wrestler and it was obvious Sam once had a poster above his bed (a cute moment) and then later it had to be explained to us that "yes, Sam did have a poster" by Dean making the comment to Sam. A really small thing (and trivial), but it sums up what was wrong with this episode for me. And then there's the anvilious "just keep grinding" (as though Sam and Dean haven't worked through that all before).

But yeah. Too many good ones so it can have a pass. :)

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

I felt let down after "The Vessel". The Lucifer arc isn't as boring as the Amara arc, but watching Misha imitate Mark Pellegrino takes me out of the story. Is it wrong that I was delighted that Crowley got his mojo back from the rod? (That sounded dirty.) For ages I've been wondering why he doesn't teleport. FINALLY.

The wrestling stuff was a lot of fun. I'd rewatch for that, but someone will put it on YouTube.

One random tidbit: I was reading an interview with Andrew Lincoln of "Walking Dead" about the violence on the show (end of S5). He talked about the violent on WD being motivated, and said how much he dislikes 'torture porn'. And how the show avoids it. SPN has SO MUCH torture porn!

And why why why every show some being throws Sam and Dean across the room and pins one or both of them? It is so overused, and since when can a mere demon do it? Pretty soon waiters at lunch counters will be doing it to the brothers i f they skip the try to skip out on the check.

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

Pretty soon waiters at lunch counters will be doing it to the brothers i f they skip the try to skip out on the check. Hahahahahaha!

I agree, it really is overused. Sam and Dean have gone up against monsters, the devil himself, angels, archangels, upper level demons...and they get bested by some demon flunky. Puh leeeeze.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

The trouble with the demon flinging is that it's so inconsitently used too - some episodes demons don't seem to remember they are physically stronger than humans and have POWERS for gawd's sake. Then other episodes you get some random demon suddenly able to take out both Winchesters at once with a flick of the hand. I just wish when they created lore on this show they'd bloody stick to it - or provide credible reasons why the lore's been subverted.

[sam-dean-lover.livejournal.com]

hi, *hugs* i thought it was better than last week *i mute my tv on Casifer*, Sam wasnt unconscious (a big no-no for me last week no matter how long out), nice brother moments,(when they were separate last week) its still "we save Cas now and defeat the darkness later* which i give it a pass becuz the episode was much better. im ok with it ending the way it did, unlike last week.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

i thought it was better than last week

Haha! we are on a different wave length on this for sure! The Vessel (to me) was one of the best written eps this season and this one was the the worse (well, second to The Devil in the Details).

For me, last week's used subtly in the story telling. This one hammered it over our heads. I felt there was more "togetherness" last week even though the boys were apart than I did this week. The wrestling watching was fun, but I felt like I was watching Jared and Jensen (act), not Sam and Dean. But I love that many did really enjoy the episode. That's always great. :))

On a side note - Dean saying "we'll save Cas" irked me so much that I think it that's what spoiled the episode for me. Not because of the sentiment (of course they'll save Cas), but because of the way Dean is able (allowed to by the writers) to forgive Cas for letting out Lucifer instantly - but it took a WHOLE SEASON for Dean to forgive Sam for the same thing. I know it's a different story line, but a least a little bit of something from Dean would have been satisfying. He did at least acknowledge Cas made a mistake at the end I suppose. But clearly, all has been forgiven (even though it almost got them killed last week). Eek! I ranted. Sorry. I've been holding that in….

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I didn't love it but I did enjoy a lot of it. I still find Misha's Casifer both unconvincing and irritating as a result, and I was really hating the Crowley puppy play, so I was rather glad to see Crowley back in action and all cleaned up again (even though I'm not that fond of the character generally). Lucifer in Cas doesn't seem particularly powerful or menacing, and there's no reason he shouldn't be fully juiced up this time, unlike last time when he was constrained by the limitations of an inferior vessel.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

*nods* Not making any sense to me either. Why isn't Lucifer burning down the world already? (clearly I know he can't yet). Lucifer went from one of my fave bads to one of my least faves. I was actually hoping Crowley was going to kill him last night. I dread to think what they've going to do with him next. As he doesn't "need" Sam - but does apparently needs Dean, it will be about Lucifer/Cas and Dean in the future and yeah, that will make be *sigh* a lot.

I wish I could say that I enjoyed it - aside from Jensen's bit in the ring I was - I was feeling pretty meh. As I said, that could be because of the cold! ;)

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

Um - Nope, not for me, none of it.

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

As long as Sam has hair
There'll never be despair
Sam's hair will save the day
When eps create dismay
~ GreyOwl

Sorry, rhyme attack. I couldn't help myself. lol ;D

xx

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

I actually feel kind of bad now because it seems that so many people hated this one, and I actually quite liked it. Maybe it's because I went into it not expecting a whole lot? I enjoyed Dean in the ring and I thought it was really cute how the two of them went to see the match together, were cheering and all that, and the bro moments. To me it seemed like a nice little break from all the Amara/Lucifer mytharc stuff (well, that part of the episode, anyway...not that I'm saying it was totally free of mytharc but you know what I mean).

I did have a few issues with it, mainly Casifer getting on my nerves and like others have mentioned, it did bug me that neither of the boys (especially Sam) even attempted to exorcise that demon. But IDK, I liked it. Maybe I'm just on a high from the cuteness & bro moments...to me it was like a nice little birthday present.

I hope your cold eases up soon!

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

I actually feel kind of bad now because it seems that so many people hated this one, and I actually quite liked it.

Never feel bad for enjoying an episode!! :D

[amypond45.livejournal.com]

I liked the little memory of their father taking them to wrestling shows, complete with the commentary on the dad sitting behind them who was there mostly for the cheap beer ("Oh, that's why Dad took us to these things..." – poor John cannot catch a break! Which seems a little unfair, tbh, but probably realistic too, so I'm buying it, even though I'm a little ambivalent about John-bashing in general...)

Sorry, did something else happen? :)

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

Not a lot, but Jensen was very funny in the first half.

[madebyme-x.livejournal.com]

I came in knowing nothing about this episode, and was pleasantly surprised. While I'm not a wrestling fan, I can totally buy that Dean and Sam were. I loved seeing them away from hunting for little, just enjoying being brothers and reminiscing about the past, and a positive John memory (well, for SPN anyway). I also liked how it touched on Sam seeing a slightly darker side of it, and not as rosy and happy as Dean remembers it (plus yummy funeral outfits!!)

I enjoyed the ending too, it had an old school vibe for me; keep on fighting the good fight, even though everything is kinda crappy and we're against the odds, but we're in this together and we have each other.

Not perfect, but I really enjoyed it.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

That's great! I think I wish I had been in a better frame of mind for it. I think I was hoping for a little more on their reaction to Lucifer being out of the cage - instead we only got "we have to save Cas" and that was it. So maybe my expectations were a little too high.

I wasn't a fan of the script, but it was nice to see the brothers happy for a change. :))

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I need to watch it a second time yet, but upon first watching, the ep was just okay. I liked that they stumbled on a case and had some fun brotherly exchanges. Dean's behavior tickled my second-hand embarrassment squick, but only enough to make me squint every now and then. I found myself rooting for Crowley, for sure. And...eh, it was an okay episode. Nothing fancy, but a bit of fun.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was okay. :) I'm not quite sure why I was so harsh on it, or felt disappointed by it. I think I was on such a high from last week that I forgot to come down again (or something!). It did have some nice moments between the brothers - and it's nice to see them take some time out. Maybe I was pining for a bit more Sam maybe? I dunno...I think on a group re-watch I'd enjoy it more. :)

[casey28.livejournal.com]

I agree. It had some funny stuff, and cute brother moments, but it was lacking in a lot of ways.

Some of it didn't make sense. Why would Gunner sell his soul to win a single match, when wrestling is planned out in advance.. there are no real "winners", it's all scripted.

Cas saying "yes" to Lucifer is a huge thing, but we've barely seen Sam and Dean react to it. They should be more upset about it... it undermined all of Sam's effort in saying "no".

Not enough Sam in the ep. *sigh*

Crowley escaping from Lucifer was very predictable.

Well, every season has a few eps that aren't great, or are just ok. We've been lucky in season 11, and most eps have been really good.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this. I remember feeling a bit flat after watching it and I think I just wanted a little more. I was hoping to see more reaction to them thinking about what Cas did. But as you say, most eps have been great this season. :))