(no subject)

[ash48]

I am considering (considering) opening a topic for discussion on whether destiel will become canon in the show sometime soon.

What do you think?

[Poll #1913053]

Comments

[kazluvsbooks.livejournal.com]

I hope you are wearing a raincoat..hee :)

[ayane42.livejournal.com]

lol! my daughter's car broke down and I have to go get her.

so, if this were to ever be in the show it would have to be a meta episode.

i believe the writers are aware of it. at least Ben Edlund is (Castiel holding Dean in an angelic embrace, wink wink) and if they were to do this it would be an intentional nod at the viewers.

oops, maybe i clicked that one before i read them all. sorry frazzled.

[destina.livejournal.com]

I think if the show were going to go there, they'd have gone there way back around the time they went to the 'blow me' and 'not for nothing but the last time someone looked at me like that I got laid' place. But mostly I don't believe the actors (Jensen, actually) or the producers have the balls. Zero balls are had. (I WOULD LIKE TO BE PROVEN WRONG.)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hee...indeed.../o\

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oooh...a meta episode! Now that's a possibility actually. I hadn't considered that. I wonder if they'd have the guts to go there...

They could tackle wincest while they were there. (only that's more taboo, so I doubt they go that far...)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

This was my point exactly in the recent discussion I had. If this were on a cable network then they might have the balls to go there. As it is, and the show has been well established within certain boundaries, I doubt they'd "risk" breaking them.

And yes, there were certainly more opportunities in past episode to take that direction if they were going to. I honestly think they just like teasing fandom (which I feel has now backfired on them considering the recent con kerfuffle).

Happy to be proved wrong. And in fact someone suggested that it could exist in a meta episode - which, hmmmm,....coooould possibly happen.

[runedgirl.livejournal.com]

Damn, you got my hopes up for a second there! ;)

[runedgirl.livejournal.com]

I have trouble wanting anything to get in the way of my Sam/Dean OTP, so I don't really hope for it, but at the same time, I can't help but wish they did have the balls to do Destiel in canon if we can't have actual Wincest. Which methinks we can't. Alas. lol

[ash48.livejournal.com]

ha! can you imagine that!!

*imagines*....hmmmmmmm

[a-carnal-mink.livejournal.com]

Dean and Cas are like my OTP to end all my OTPs but, speaking as an oldschool D/C'er, can I just register how deeply I hate that portmanteau? ;)

[ayane42.livejournal.com]

ok, i'm back, sheesh what a night!!

anyway, yeah, i look at it this way... say there's like a million people who watch supernatural, and of those people how many don't know anything about fanfiction? or even consider wincest, or know what destiel is.

i know i'm on a supernatural facebook page that absolutely will not allow any mention of wincest or destiel or manips. for this group it's all about the canon and the family business.

i also heard, don't know if this is true, a girl at the NJ con had a wincest t-shirt on and many woman took offense to that.

so demographically we're like a small percentage i think.

but yeah, a meta episode...that would probably be the only way to do that but it would probably have to be in such a way that it could be taken two ways, you know what i mean?

[antrazi.livejournal.com]

While I write mostly gen my reading goes more in the lines with Balthazar: everything goes. So no, I don't have any actual shipping preference, Destiel or otherwise. But yeah, Destiel is very much canon in the way they interact, the only question is if they are bumping ugly's.
So, are you talking about making that canon? Because you know the fandom, this easily gets out of hand in a clash of Destiel shippers vs. Wincest shippers. Again.

[growyourwings.livejournal.com]

I almost went with the "it will clearly never happen" choice. Basically if anyone could host such a discussion and keep it as reasonable as that subject could be, it would be you.

Destiel is a hot button topic for me. Actually after the last wank around it, I'm a lot more mellow about it than I used to be after seeing everyone go a little batshit crazy around the subject. And that is the very problem I have about the subject, I am unhappy about how much it seems to have driven this "great divide" in fandom. Yes there has always be versus wank prior to Dean/Cas. But the Destielers pushing/thinking it could be actual canon, to me, seems to have driven a much deeper wedge in fandom. And that saddens and angers me. And up until this subject, I've never really gotten hot under the collar about anything fan related. (I think, perhaps I've blanked it from my mind.)

Don't get me wrong I like Cas. And I like the bond between Dean and Cas. And I wish there were more Cas and Sam bonding going on. And I lol a little bit about how all the versus wank seems to be always about "who gets Dean!" lol. But these OTPs are fanon and shouldn't be canon. And yes there's a little bit of butthurt Sam/Dean OTP speaking here. Not of the wincest variety; but of the "show is and always shall be" about the brothers.

[vyperdd.livejournal.com]

But they have already tackled (sorta) Wincest in The Monster At The End Of This Book in season 4. And via Becky in season's 5 Sympathy For The Devil. So, been there, done that.

[missyjack.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

ILU.

[twisting-vine-x.livejournal.com]

While I think Misha'd be up for it, and while we know that the writers and actors are well aware of what they're doing every time Dean and Cas have a lover's spat or stare longingly into each other's eyes (as per what Misha's said about them all paying homage to the Destiel dynamic), I don't think the SPN Powers That Be would ever have the guts to go there. As amazing as it would be to have a non-hetero canon pairing on a show (where their sexual orientation isn't the whole damn focus on the show), there's a portion of fandom that would tear the Powers That Be apart for canonically making Dean anything but manly male complete heterosexual, and we're still such a cult show that I don't think the Powers That Be would ever risk alienating any of their audience (not to mention risking the show's ability to get renewed, because, well, institutionalized homophobia sucks).

That being said, I, personally, view Destiel as canon already. In terms of the sexual orientation part of things, there have been more than enough hints at Dean not being completely straight (honestly, his entire character arc - up from 'Well, you are kind of butch. Maybe they think you're overcompensating.' and him being visibly uneasy around non-straight guys, to him getting all flattered and flustered when Aaron hits on him; and this isn't even considering his insane relationship with Cas - has been quite impressive, with regards to sexual orientation). He's gone from not-quite-homophobic-but-still-uneasy to the much more awesome place where he is now. And then Cas, of course, is a genderless angel in a male body who - by his own admission - is indifferent to sexual orientation, and who stares at Dean like Dean hung the moon, and who - canonically - is able to have sex, so. Yeah. I think that, canonically, there's enough to go on.

And that's not even getting into the emotional connection the two of them have, jesus christ. I'd give anything to have someone look at me the way the two of them look at each other. So are we ever gonna get Dean and Cas just flat-out making out on screen? Highly doubtful, unfortunately. But seeing as the actors and writers know damn well what they're doing, and seeing as Misha supports it, and seeing as there's already enough evidence to make an argument for their relationship already being canon - well, I'll take it. And if the SPN Powers That Be ever decide to go any further, I'll support 'em completely, cause that would be awesome.

... Also, apologies for writing you a novel, when the poll was simply to see whether even starting this conversation was a good idea. Apparently I have a lot of feels. XD

[stormcloude]

You're making me cry. :(

[tiniowien.livejournal.com]

I love you to bits and your posts always make me smile but the choices you put up there for that poll hit me as really quite peculiar. I can see how you went from yes to no to yes again in theory, but as I went down the list I found it harder to try and pick one to click and answer. It kind of unsettled me and I can't put my finger on why, so I'm going to give an apology hug for the ramble and head back to my corner after this. <3

The fact that you're even considering braving the waters of an essay on the topic however is really cool and I trust the reactions of folks here are more mature than on tumblr when any ship topic is brought up. Wank is never needed anywhere. :)

twisting_vine_x was very eloquent and I can't add much to her post, only to say that if Castiel's vessel had been originally chosen as female and their interactions across the years kept identical, critics would be lauding these two from the rooftop of every magazine as TV's most clever, unrequited build-up. The X-Files once made a fortune out of holding Mulder and Scully at arm's length while displaying their obvious care and affection for one another and then closing that gap ever so slowly over time.

I can't say personally if I ever see it becoming canon in the near future, but I know that whatever the show's endgame is/will be, they're certainly not above throwing constant titbits to the audience and I get the faint impression (from both online and my own friends and family - particularly my mother who is in her 60s and wouldn't understand subtle if it hit her with a proverbial brick) that these hints are broadening from the original nods to the side of the fandom they know is watching, to something casual viewers can -and have- picked up on. Whether this is part of a deliberate evolution or just them trying to please everyone while still making sure to add the bro moments I can't say. I know what I quietly have come to believe based on what I've witnessed and my own conversations with Misha, however they have two more seasons at least and if I were a gambling woman I'd say we wouldn't get anything concrete (if we ever do) until the final days.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. They've talked about it which is rather interesting. Pretty much saying we know it's out there, have fun with that but it's not something you'll ever see on the show. Fair enough probably....;)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Sorry hun! See, it was making me cry so I decided to really look into it and see what's being said. It's just my way of dealing with it. If it helps, I can't see this ever happening. Many of the arguments I saw have been based on what they thought would be happening in Season 8.


*hugs*

[greyowl88.livejournal.com]

LOL. Seeing this poll and the choices to click made me grin. Other than being tempted to click "Ha! You clearly have too much time on your hands. Go and make stuff" for the laugh of it, the honest choice would be "What?! Is this show some fucking soap opera now?!" *clix*
I'm still traumatized from how they potrayed Cas in the last ep. This was the first time I thought maybe the show would be better off having killed him off quite a while ago. And I actually really like Castiel. But not in this whiney, trying to kiss Dean's ass kind of fashion and trusting Metatron because Dean is not there to tell him otherwise.(puke)
But anyway *deep breath* if you do post a discussion about destiel in the show I'd come and have a look anyway. :)

[rhymephile.livejournal.com]

Yes, THIS. It's been co-opted by Tumblr and that's what you have to label everything now. Bah, I hate it. We old-school shippers only used the "/" back in the day. I'm old.

More on the topic, as a member of the LGBT community, it would be amazingly *earth-shattering* to see a male character previously only seen as straight come out as bisexual on a network television show (despite its relative small viewership in the grand scheme of things). Now, Joss Whedon did it with Willow on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but to be honest it's more acceptable to the viewing audience because she was female.

To have Show take a step to FINALLY follow through with all this wink-wink and double entendres and outright "You're confusing me with the other angel who's in love with you" stuff would be revelatory. I'm sick and tired of the writers (and the actors at cons) constantly jokingly referring to it, when I don't think they understand how important it would be to those of us in the community. It's not a joke. It's not funny. It's not cute. I wish they would stop playing it to the audience as such.

If it was never planned to have Dean come out as bisexual, fine. If that's the case, then they need to STOP with all the dialogue that can be interpreted in expressly gay ways for two male characters to be saying to each other and define the Dean/Cas relationship as strictly familial. Stop playing to your audience of teenage shippers and winking at the relationship. It pisses me off.

As a Dean/Cas shipper, I don't think it will ever be canon, because I don't think the writers would ever have enough balls to pursue it.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHA...

I know...;)

[serpentsheart.livejournal.com]

I just don't see this deep connection others do with Destiel or buy it, guess I can't let go of how intense Sam and Dean were in the early seasons. I just end up resenting the writers for dumping them and shifting away from the intense codependent laser focus on Sam and Dean's relationship by making everyone Dean's very best friend/sibling.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Oh hey. I hope everything went ok. Nothing like surprise pickups.

And yes to this. I'm not sure if it was here I mentioned this but I suspect that on-line fandom only represents a small proportion of fans who ship or even know what shipping means. (Man, I'd love some stats on that).

It's one of the argument in my essay. As much as there's a group where this is wanted (or not wanted) there's a possibly even bigger group that the concept hasn't even crossed their minds. And could, quite possibly, alienate a major section of the viewing public.

There's a rather massive discussion that could be had about the societal reasons why they wouldn't go there in a mainstream show, but that's probably not something to get into here. It's interesting though and part of why I considered posting something about it. (but looking at the poll results it probably won't happen...;D)

xx